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I have had to merge segments – and now find that while everything looks good in the source and target in Trados, when I hit preview [source or target] the rest of the sentence – except the first line, or the orgignal first segment – has disappeared: any ideas how to fix this?
[IE] 3 merged segemnts, for example, forming one full sentence in both source and target in Trados, only display the first line [presumably the initial segment] for both source and target in both html and embedded preview.
Is this a refresh issue? What happens if you close the file, switch projects, then come back to this one again and preview it?
Would also be good to know what type of file this is and maybe share a screenshot too (you can simply copy/paste into the forum)?
Paul Filkin | RWS
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It's a regular sdlxliff file sent containing a single .docx
Even if there was some invisible table, surely the merge would have merged the segments - i.e. the cells? Again, the source AND target text both only show the first line of text after merging... so the merge function seems to have removed the text in segments 2 and 3, for example - both in the preview and in the F12 target file - ...even though it all looks good if the sdlxliff file is opened in Trados...
If you merged across parapgrah segments this could be the cause of the issue... because it's a hack. That's where Jerzy is coming from by asking about table cells for example. There was a reason why Trados never supported merging across paragraph breaks for years and the eventual implementation was an automation of simply taking the text out of the subsequent source segments and copy/pasting into the first one.
If there are tags between they will be left where they are and the content between them will now be missing. This is explained here:
https://multifarious.filkin.com/2016/11/21/bridging-the-divide-merging-segments/
So for some filetypes it's not a good idea to enable merging across para segments. In this case, woth word, it's fne. But it seems the preview is broken as mentioned before.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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Oh, even in Word you must be careful. It is enough, that an anchor point is in one of the merged segments or - even worse - was between these! In that case you can create target, but won't be able to open it in Word.
As for the method of merging - this was possible since 2009 or at least 2011, afair. Simply as soon you allowed to edit source. But from my experience edit source does not cause ANY problems in ANY format, while merging will damage some.
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I read the multifarious article earlier - but it didn't mention text [visible in the xliff file when open in Trados] disappearing - both source and target text - in the preview and in the target file...
It looks like I'll have to unlock the empty, locked "merged" segments and try and cut and paste lines of the sentence - which kinda defeats the whole purpose of mergining...
But from my experience edit source does not cause ANY problems in ANY format, while merging will damage some.
It will if you use the edit source to remove the content and copy into another segment Jerzy. You can end up with markup files that are missing content where it must be there.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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I read the multifarious article earlier - but it didn't mention text [visible in the xliff file when open in Trados] disappearing - both source and target text - in the preview and in the target file...
It didn't mention the preview effect as this was something I wasn't aware of either until your post. But the problem is clear and mentioned. This image shows exactly what the problem can be:
Paul Filkin | RWS
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Well, it seems to be a very special case here.
Would the source be XLF or XML, the whole merging over paragraph breaks is not a good idea.
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Ironically, I tried it and it worked! I unlocked the second [erstwhile merged] segment, and cut and pasted from both the source and the target... now it looks fine [except that the 3rd merged segment shows as a blank line]... but what a complete waste of time!
I do not leave the source segments empty, but place XXX there. The translation is then two spaces. It worked until now in 100% of all cases.
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I do not leave the source segments empty, but place XXX there. The translation is then two spaces. It worked until now in 100% of all cases.
It wouldn't work in all cases though Jerzy. If it was important for the target application to take the content of the, now empty elements (spaces are empty), and use this in a specific location it would now fail to be suitable for purpose. It would require additional work from a localization engineer to fix them.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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C'mon, this is a rare problem. Try to work with any other tool and then compare this "waste of time" with what you can or cannot do there. You've spent hours on discussing this "problem" here, which most probably will not occur in the vast majority of other Word docx files. Same can happen to you on a motorway: you'll drive it for years, until one day there will be a nail and you will waste time replacing your tyre...
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C'mon, this is a rare problem. Try to work with any other tool and then compare this "waste of time" with what you can or cannot do there. You've spent hours on discussing this "problem" here, which most probably will not occur in the vast majority of other Word docx files. Same can happen to you on a motorway: you'll drive it for years, until one day there will be a nail and you will waste time replacing your tyre...
_________________________________________________________
When asking for help here, please be as accurate as possible. Please always remember to give the exact version of product used and all possible error messages received. The better you describe your problem, the better help you will get.
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It's a Word document: why "try to work with any tool " at all? Trados has not helped me in any way. I only use it if I have to. For this very reason. Not only do I waste hours trying to fix problems I wouldn't have if I just used Word, I can't even physically see the Word document - or it shows problems I can't fix in the xliff file that I could fix if it was a simple word file. Why send ac xliff for a single word doc in any case? This one has no charts/tables etc. ... And I'm not seeking to discuss anything - I just want the answer, to fix what shouldn't be happening.
And as Jerzy alludes to, the TM is completely pointless when the German text is chopped up into 'untranslatable' segments that can't be merged properly: it defeats the purpos of using Trados at all.
Come on guys... we concluded at the start this is a bug. We need to fix it... that's all there is to it.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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And as Jerzy alludes to, the TM is completely pointless when the German text is chopped up into 'untranslatable' segments that can't be merged properly: it defeats the purpos of using Trados at all.
Yes, but note that this is a source document problem and should be resolved there. We can't expect a CAT tool to take content and handle it perfectly when it's been prepared without any thought towards localization.
If you handle it in Word you are effectively working in the source application, so of course that will help to avoid any problem over segmentation isues.
The preview issue is something else. We need to fix this.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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Well clearly this is way above my pay grade, but, as I mentioned, even when I preview the SOURCE, the same (merged) segments only display the first page line, which I assume is the first (premerged) segment... If it was just a preview issue rather than a problem with the original file, wouldn't the issue be resolved (which it's not) when I generate the target file (F12)?
I still can't understand why it looks perfect with the xliff open, but the target file comes out bad...
(By the same token, if I had been able to generate a source document in the same way, it would also have ce out with only partial merged segments)
To generate source: File -> Advanced Save -> Save source as...
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Can you provide a sample from the source fle? You could do this:
This will no longer contain any recognisable content to worry about an NDA but the structure should be fine so we can reproduce the problem and get it fixed.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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Without anything merged? Ie as I received it?
Correct. But tell me which parts you merged.
Paul Filkin | RWS
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I can provide a sample from the source fle, tomorrow, since I have more paid work to do right now... but I have never deleted content from an xliff file before, nor pseudotranslated , nor do I know how to "save the target" - beyond hitting F12, for instance - or do you mean just hitting CTRL S, for the paragrahs pseudotranslated?
Well, I could not find out how to delete content [ie entire segments] so , instead, here's a link to the entire xliff, as sent to me for post-editing:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6ckizmk8oe42de/xxx.docx%20-%20Copy.sdlxliff?dl=0
The segments merged are those seen in the screenshots, for example 74-76, 77-8, also from 921 to 941 I did multiple merges, all with the same result - lloking great in the editor screen, but preview - and "save target" only show the first line...
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